Home > Baptism, Baptist Quotes, Catechism > John Tombes’ Catechism on Baptism Pt 6

John Tombes’ Catechism on Baptism Pt 6

17. May we be said to be compleat as the Jews without Infant Baptism?

Our compleatness is in that we have not Ordinances as the Jews had, but we are compleat in that we have all in Christ without them, Col. 2.8,9,10.

18. Have not our Children then less Priviledge than the Jews had?

No: For Circumcision was a priviledge only for a time, and comparitively to the estate of the Gentiles who knew not God; but of itself was a heavy yoke, Acts 15.10. Gal. 5.1,2,3.

19. Why did the Jews then so much contend for it, Acts 15.1,5.?

Because they too much esteemed the Law, and knew not their liberty by the Gospel.

20. Had it not been a discomfort to the believing Jews to have their Children unbaptized, and out of the Covenant?

The want of Baptism to Infants was never any grievance to Believers in the New Testament, nor were they thereby put out of the Covenant of Grace.

A Short Catechism about Baptism by John Tombes, B.D.

Heb 6.2. Of the Doctrine of Baptisms. Luke 7.35. But Wisdom is justified of all her Children. London: 1659

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  1. December 29, 2012 at 11:48 am

    completeness in Christ comes after one was baptized by Holy spirit into Christ – and in that baptism obviously – circumcision by spirit or spiritual – and this is privilege to get as such.

    nothing in the water baptism happening – only public declaration of one’ repentance- but it is not important as much as baptism by Holy Spirit into the Body,where one are circumcised.

    • January 5, 2013 at 6:43 am

      Thank you my friend for your comment.

      I agree that baptism by the Spirit into the body of Christ is what brings one into the family of God. This happens at regeneration and is not a second work of grace as some believe.

      Also I agree that water baptism is a sign of the believer’s being identified with Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection.

      What does concern me in your comment, however is that you state that water baptism is not as important. Here you have missed the significance of obeying Christ. Christ commanded water baptism and therefore anything Christ commands is just as important.

      Don’t you agree that it is important to obey whatever Christ commands?

      • August 4, 2015 at 7:11 am

        the water baptism not obligated today –

        New International Version

        I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

        from the time the Holy spirit has descended on earth – no need to do this

        the baptism by water of life needed only , today

      • August 8, 2015 at 4:45 am

        I disagree. Water baptism is an ordinance (some use the term sacrament) given to us by Christ himself.

        Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
        Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

        This is what is called “The Great Commission.” Here Christ gives us instructions to baptize. This can’t be baptism of the Spirit, since baptism of the Spirit takes place at regeneration and can only be accomplished by God.

  2. January 5, 2013 at 6:54 am

    Regeneration happens in the baptism of the Holy Spirit not opposite.

    the baptism in the water is only for repentance-for salvation the baptism by Holy Spirit.

    Why apostle Paul was sent to assist baptism by Holy Spirit not by water.

    the baptism in the water has not so much significance like you claim- you take everything what is about baptism in the Holy Spirit(death,resurrection) and assign it to baptism by water.

    it is not calculations of first,second grace and so on-it is to be immersed into Holy Spirit as much as needed and to be found at the end dead to the world and alive to Christ.

    • January 5, 2013 at 7:27 am

      There is no separate baptism of the Spirit my friend and the reason we are given four outpourings of the Spirit is to show that God has accepted or brought in all types of people. The Jews thought that God was only a God of the Jews. When Cornelius’ house received the baptism, this showed that God also had accepted the Gentiles.

      You cannot take scripture from narrative passages and make doctrine out of them. They are not teaching doctrine, but instead are giving a narrative of events. Doctrine comes from the didactical passages. The word didactic means ‘instruction’. You seem to be building your doctrines on the narrative and this method has lead to countless errors throughout Church history my friend.

      When people receive Christ it is because the Spirit has moved upon them and regenerated them; thus giving the gift of faith. By faith they reach out for Christ. At the moment they are regenerated they are baptised into the body of Christ.

      1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
      1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

  3. January 5, 2013 at 9:02 am

    when takes place then crucifixion of flesh with sinful package?

    when the old man crucified and one put on new man?

    if it is at the acceptance of Christ why many sins problems afterwards?

    if one crucified the old man ,put on new one where everything Christ-he cannot sin -the same if one was born from God -cannot sin.- because God is inside of one.

    or how you describe the person with Christ living in the heart?

    • January 5, 2013 at 9:41 am

      The Bible never states that we are without sin after we come to know Christ, my friend.

      1 John 1:8 is plain that if you say you have no sin then you deceive yourself, and the truth is not in you.

      1 John 3:8 declares that he that committeth sin is of the devil.

      The word committeth in the Greek means to habitually practice sin. A Christian does not habitually practice sin, yet he still sins. We will not be without sin until we reach heaven.

      You are claiming that when we receive the Holy Spirit, then we cease to sin.

      You are also missing the point that regeneration comes about by the Holy Spirit. Once we are regenerated we are sealed with the Spirit. There is no second work. Pentecostals teach that a second work occurs, yet there is no scriptural basis for such doctrine.

      You still have not dealt with what I said about Christ commanding baptism. Are you saying that whatever Christ commands is not important. Because you stated in your original comment that water baptism was not important.

  4. January 5, 2013 at 10:29 am

    baptism in water really is not important because the Holy Spirit one can receive before.

    and i repeat -Why apostle Paul was sent to assist baptism by Holy Spirit not by water.

    it is important what the Holy Spirit doing with us not what peoples hands (preachers,pastors).

    if time allows one can do baptism in the water – anyway-

    one is saved not by baptism in the water but by baptism of the Holy Spirit into the Body.

    baptism -immersion or according Jesus -drinking water -where water is the Holy Spirit.

    and who is drinking water-what is it? it is not immersion into the Holy Spirit?

    so i don’t speak about baptism of the Holy Spirit as one act. when they where baptized by the Holy Spirit and started manifestations -it is the fact they were immersed into the holy Spirit – and how many times immersion can happened again? But if the Holy Spirit is in one -why one needs to be filled with the Holy Spirit?

    So it is in accord with Jesus-one is drinking water till the water becomes the source in him.

    who is the source of the living water? God? so after drinking period the Holy Spirit starts living in the heart,not before.
    Then the living water- Holy Spirit – running out of one. Have you seen such person?

    i didn’t- i just read about them-Jesus-talking by the Holy Spirit, driving out demons by the Holy Spirit, healing by words and power of the Holy Spirit. then Apostles……

    and what about our times?

    ————————————————–
    now John 1:8/

    question- you read on John 1:9?

    if one confesses- he cleans him from all unrighteousness.

    if one is cleansed by Him why you put to doubt work of God of cleansing like after it one are not clean?

    so it is not enough faith to believe that Jesus blood makes clean and Holy Spirit make new birth and the Holy spirit lives in -and suddenly one go on sinning like not capable to live holy life? opposite -such cannot sin-you cannot still believe it?

    if one sins–because one is in presence of God- the sinning will be stopped immediately by God- just by forgiveness only or by forgiveness and punishment-it depends.

    • January 5, 2013 at 1:20 pm

      My friend I appreciate your comments, but you haven’t heard anything of which I have said.

      1. You cannot make doctrine out of narrative scripture. The book of Acts contains doctrine, but isn’t written necessarily to teach doctrine. Your multiple accounts of Paul going to believers so they can receive the Spirit does not exist. You read that into scripture. But there were four groups who received the Spirit and this was only done to show that God has accepted all types of persons, not just Jews.

      2. The only place that you could teach that a second baptism is for today would be from Corinthians, but this book doesn’t support your view neither. The book of Corinthians was written by Paul as a rebuke, not as a commendation. Paul rebuked them for division, for fornication, for going to law against one another before unbelievers, for disputes over eating meat, for drunkness, for coming into the church and speaking in the pagan gibberish from their old pagan religions because if they had been speaking by the Spirit, then they would not be cursing Christ 1 Cor. 12:3. But if no one could call Christ Lord except by the Spirit.

      Also Paul said that there was one faith, one Lord, and one baptism Ephesians 4:5.

      3. You keep stating that Christ command in the great commission is not important. Christ commanded that we go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father,.Son, and Holy Spirit. Since you think what Christ commanded is not important then we ought to rip Christ’s words out of scripture.

      Finally I to used to be in the erroneous Charismatic/Pentecostal circles and taught their erroneous doctrines. I was in the Charismatic Churches for 16 years.

      Now in order to refute what I have stated you must give scripture for your assertions. But there is no scripture to back them up.

      Good day.

  5. January 5, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    i refute understanding of the scripture not scripture itself.

    and if simple logical things not acceptable how it is possible to proof – something like these- baptism by the Holy Spirit,washing of the Holy Spirit, Drinking living water, and everything what described around of all these like rebirth,circumcision and all spiritual blessings-that it is one process.

    very strange resistance.

    • January 5, 2013 at 10:06 pm

      You really ought to take some courses in theology, for your comments come off at times, incoherent.

      • January 6, 2013 at 7:59 am

        Again, as I tell atheist and unbelievers here: You will not get another comment for rudeness.

        Only atheist and those who pervert the truth browse the internet trying to convert others to their way of thinking. This is because they are on their way to Hell and try to bring others with them.

        Good day.

        For all those who read this: I have to approve your comments before they show up. The commentor above began to comment repeatedly with rude remarks and therefore I will not allow those comments to be posted, nor will I spend time refuting rudeness. I will only debate issues.

      • August 4, 2015 at 7:04 am

        according to the scripture very coherent they are

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